During class today we discussed the idea of seperation of church and state. Ideas were presented in support of the idea, but some said that it doesn't really exist when making decisions. Ideas were also presented about the state of our society today and reactions toward public prayer.
For PART I, continue the discussion. For PART II, respond to other people's thoughts. (PART I due by 2/23; PART II due by 2/26)
The separation of powers exists when a law is proposed that goes against one's personal beliefs. For example, abortion is still okay in our country; however, gay marriage is not. Lawmakers argue that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. In actuality, marriage, in nearly any church, is defined by the union of a man and woman. The church and its practices and teachings were not argued against in abortion so it would no longer exist. For gay marriage, however, many use "the church believes...", "God says it's wrong...", "Jesus preached against homosexuality...", ect. I believe the separation of Church and State only comes into play when a new law is proposed and someone needs a reason not to like it. In this, I think it has made our society jaded about their own beliefs, like prayer in a public place. What all boils down to is a view that is so narrow minded that it is hard to believe another has a different view point. No one should be forced to pray, but yet, no one should be told they can't if it is important to them. The Greenwood graduation is the perfect example. The school shouldn't force that student to pray if he does not want to. However, that student should say, "I don't want to, but find someone else who does,". Then that student, who was the valedictorian, can go on with his speech. Then it comes down to offending someone with a prayer. What if they're an atheist? What if they're not a Christian? What if they're a minority? If they're an atheist, they don't have to participate. They don't have to say the prayer or even pay attention; however, they should not hate on someone for expressing their beliefs, especially if it is a school tradition. Then, if someone is not a Christian or is a minority, a neutral prayer can be given. It doesn't have to specific to any religion. Even though the prayer might say "God" instead of "Allah", it still has the same meaning, and it is still going to the same higher power. As long as religion isn't forced down an non-believer's throat, in which not to take offense to prayer, and as long as someone who does not believe make derogatory comments about someone who does, and does not take offense to those who choose not to participate in prayer, everything would be fine and life would go on just as normal. It boils down to seeing the world as a whole and the tolerance of all its six billion people.
ReplyDeleteI dont think you always be able to separate church and state but for the most part it should be separated to prevent conflict. But when there is a scenario like prayer in a school i think the people should just let it go because it really isnt that big if a deal its just a prayer and it really has no effect on anyone
ReplyDeleteI agree that people who disagree with something that goes against their religion should just deal with it, because its honestly no big deal. If you don't want to participate in prayer at school, then don't, but don't make a scene out of it.
DeleteI agree with you. If prayer is not a big deal you, you don't have to pay attention. One shouldn't throw a fit over it if they just don't care. They should just let whoever wants to pray be able to without a big ordeal about it.
DeleteYeah I agree that the people who don't like the prayer or whatever should not make a scene and throw a hissy fit. They should chill back and keep their mouth shut.
Deleteahh thank you nicole i agree i hate when people freak out over that stuff like is it really going to bother you and offend you sooo much to sit there 1-3 minutes (unless its mr. hollowell) and listen to a prayer uhh no, people need to chill out, dont sweat the small stuff
DeletePraying doesn't exactly mean to pray to God. It really means to offer a petition. For the people that reject prayer, do they actually reject prayer or God. If they reject God then there doesn't have to be prayer directed toward God but as a saying to everyone. Public Prayer is mainly to ask for guidance and for protection. Praying in other words is a call of help. Why would we want to reject that?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Josh. If someone is praying in public, they arn't always praying to God. It's just stupid how some people are offended by other religions praying in public.
DeleteI agree because veryone can pray to wjoever they want and we just have to respext rhy people have different beliefs than us and we can just sit there and respect it onstead of cry about it
DeleteI don't think there should be any separation because people usually know how the church and state work. Just like the school, they had a set way of doing things. If a person doesn't like the way an organization prays, then they shouldn't interact with them. If there was to be any seperation, it should be for conflict purposes like Nicole said.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the people who aren't in favor of the religion should not interact with the group. They should move to a place with their own religion.
DeleteThere has and will always be conflict between church and the public. I think those not in favor of the religion that is in their daily lives should migrate to an area that does have their religion or follows the same beliefs as themselves. If not, they should not cause argument or conflict with those people in that area, worshiping their faith.
ReplyDeleteAs I had said in class, I think that the seperation of church and state is what is necessary to have a sucessful government. However, the likelihood of being able to completely and fully seperate the two will never be able to be accomplished. People who are devoutley, or even just semi, religious cannot completely seperated their moral values from what the country or world may need as a whole. What they believe in may in the end actually hurt the country or world. I think that people also need to become more accepting of other religions and stop being upset due to their riturals or cerimonies that they may not necessarily care for. If it's another's beliefs, respect that, don't argue, and just be ok with it. People will not ever be able to change another's view point on a religious issue, and there will always be religious controversy and persecution. The best we can hope for is that others realize that they are no more right than another, so it's best to just not argue and go on with their life.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the seperation of church and state is necessary for a successful goverment. Decisions in our government need to be based on the benefit of all citizens, not just one particular group.
Deletei agree you wont ever be able to force someone to believe something so why try. I believe if there was a greater desire for the common good and respect of all regardless of their religion we would be much better off.
DeleteI agree too because like alec said it important to separate chirch and atate because if not you wil have a religious group ruling instead of a political which could lea go worse probs
DeleteI think church and state should be seperated because if it wasn't, it'd most likely cause one religious group to have more power/influence in the government. Decisions made should be based on benefitting the majority, regardless of religion, instead of only a single group of the population. I also think that if you don't agree with a person's religious views/beliefs, you should ignore/deal with it nd respect it. Even if it completely goes against your own, their personal views/beliefs have no effect on your life whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteI am going to have to disagree with you, Alek, on the fact that it should be seperated. But I do agree that people need to ignore someone elses views and beliefs and just go on with it. Honestley, if I saw a Muslim just start praying toward Mecca, I would not care. It would be a little awkward but I would let them do what they want because it's their religion.
DeleteI agree with you completely especially in saying it is not that hard to respect other people or their religious beliefs especially when it doesn't effect you.
ReplyDeletePeople need to stop making such a big deal out of someone else praying in public. If you are offended by it, just don't pay attention to it. Also, like Josh said, if it is a public prayer with other people and if someone is offended by God being involved, they don't have to pay attention, they can just say a prayer to themselves that involve their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI agree, praying in public is no big deal and if someone doesn't like it they just don't have to pay attention to it.
DeleteI don't believe we often have to worry about separation of church and state there are some issues I feel the Church plays a large role in influencing though. This should not be allowed, on small issues like prayer in school, I personally believe that it is not that big of a deal. No one is getting hurt and unless religion is being shoved down your throat you're life isn't really being effected. However there are issues I believe that Religion has swayed, one being Marriage. This issue is in fact infringing on the lifestyle of Americans who should have the same equal rights as everyone else. I am not saying that churches should be forced to marry gay couples because that would infringe upon their rights, but that doesn't mean that the government and law can't recognize them as married rather than in a civil union or at least offer the same rights to both. By not recognizing gay couples as married they are not eligible for many rights such as tax relief that is offered to married couples. Religious belief is a personal and private right that every citizen has and whether they choose to have a faith or not that faith should be respected, but everyone must be protected equally and justly under the law.
ReplyDeleteThe separation of church and state was meant for two things. First it was to make sure that the Church doesn't have power over the state and second that the state didn't have power over the church. But Since a majority of the U.S. is some form of Christianity there is no doubt that it has played a role in our decision making. But if a school wants to say a prayer even if it is not to God it doesn't bother me. But I don't believe that we have to be conscientious about everyone else's belief and put our own to shame. We should respect their faith but not diminish our own.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you've said. It has absolutely affected the decisions that the country has made. We need to have a better understanding of others religions as well so that then we can better accept them.
DeleteI do agree we should be more tolerant of other religions. We go against our rules we set about freedom of speech
DeleteChurch and state must be seperated. Religious prayer at a non religious place defeats the purpose of it being non religious. Would you not be offended if we were told no more prayer is allowed at the school we pay 14 grand a year to go to? Prayer needs to stay in its proper place as should everything in the world.
ReplyDeleteI agree that when it is flipped around and people are told that they can't pray, they may then better understand why people get offended when they do pray.
DeleteHonestly, I don't see why our US Congress would vote to take prayer out of schools anyway. They have MANY more things to deal with, especially when it comes down to the separation of church and state. I do have contest you though, just a bit. I am not sure what kind of non-religious place you are referring to, but I would not say a public school is a non-religious place. I would go as far as to say that it holds many different religions under one roof. I think, all the majority of students have a certain faith, they should be allowed to pray. If the minority don't, they don't have to pay attention because it is obviously not a big deal to them.
DeleteI agree that there has to be separation between church and state but what I don't agree with is the idea of prayer. If a school wants to pray even if it is a public school then so be it. If you were in a different country with a religion they wouldn't even bother of thinking of you when they were doing their prayer. The problem with America is we are becoming too conscientious about other peoples feelings and thoughts towards us. They are being hypocritical when they are telling us that we need to not care what others think of us and just be us not everyone else when they are doing the opposite. We need to take a reality check and see where AMERICA is going, not the rest of the world.
Deleteugh, i feel like ive said enough haa.. but the whole thing about hurting peoples feeling and offending them, is so dumb, just get over it! its ridiculous how often and easily peoples feeling get hurt, get over yourself, seriously, ive had it up to here (put your arm very high in the air) that whole thing with the student and all that about the prayer well guess what if you knew it was coming if they had been doing it for several years and you were well aware of the prayer at graduation you should have considered that first...the whole situation annoys me, honestly... stop being so darn proud about every single little thing.
ReplyDeleteI agree that katie is crazy but I think this student mostly wanted to stand out. Lots of people do whatever they can to get their ten seconds of fame. I think the student is a little more worried about tv time than his religion.
Deleteim not crazy...
DeleteI think people need to stop making such a big deal out of small things. Public prayer is nopt a bad thing and if someone does not like it they can just disregard it. The prayer probably will not last long and its just not a big deal.
ReplyDeleteI agree that people are making big deals out of little things like religion. It is better just to keep your mouth shut instead of stiring the pot and causing controversy.
DeleteI totally agree that people just want to start stuff. They just want to be the center of attention. They should shut their mouths and get on with their lives.
DeleteI agree completely. The U.S. has bigger problems to look at and worry about other than this public prayer. It is our tradition to always say a prayer and that's that. It't be like trying to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance or off the Dollar Bill.
Deletei do agree people should quit making a big deal out of a small situation.
DeleteI agree that those people not in favor of public prayer need to move away from it. There is no need for conflict just over somebody praying in public.
ReplyDeleteI think people should just go with the flow. Especially if it is tradition to do it. Like the greenwood student he should have just did the prayer to keep from controversy.
ReplyDeleteBut why should someone who goes to a school with no religion on purpose have to pray. The boy went somewhere that he shouldn't had to have bothered others with and he still got a bad reputation for it.
Deleteim glad we all pretty much have the same stand point on this situation and think that people are ridiculous.. but i think that people need to get over themselves
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